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Title: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Jade on February 17, 2009, 04:33:13 pm NetDevil-developed MMOG based on Danish building-block toys no longer expected to arrive in 2009; no new release window announced.
The Lego Group has enjoyed ample success with its line of Traveller's Tales-developed, Warner Bros Interactive-published Lego games. However, the entertainment factor of those titles relies on the tongue-in-cheek handling of the licensed properties, and not so much the hallmark fundamentals of Lego building-block construction. That approach will change with Lego Universe, the NetDevil-developed massively multiplayer online game devoted to the toy. Unfortunately, Lego purists will have to tide themselves over with the tangible toys longer than previously anticipated, as the Lego Group today announced that its family-friendly MMOG will not launch this year. "Previously scheduled for 2009, the launch of Lego Universe has been delayed due to strategic optimization within The Lego Group," a Lego Group representative confirmed for GameSpot. "We are in a fortunate position of having many outstanding product launches scheduled for 2009, and have therefore made a decision to postpone the release of Lego Universe." As described by Lego VP of business development Henrik Lorenson at last year's Leipzig Game Developers Conference, Lego Universe will give players a ranging variety of building blocks to create their own constructions. Players will also be able to create and share their own minigames using the virtual Lego bricks, and Lorenson said the game's ultimate goal would be for gamers to develop their own Lego-built worlds. The Lego Group did not reveal an updated release window for Lego Universe. However, a representative did tell GameSpot that the in-development MMOG will be shown in greater detail at this year's Game Developers Conference, which runs from March 23-27 in San Francisco. Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Post by: Jade on February 17, 2009, 04:51:06 pm Well, just think. This game was announced back in 2007. They have had 2 years to create the game, and obviously that wasn't what they were doing.
Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Post by: Jade on February 17, 2009, 04:59:52 pm :P Well, seeing as how this was the first thing that came up when Googling LEGO (under the news section)...
Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Post by: Trijhak on February 17, 2009, 05:02:23 pm That sucks.
I'm dissapointed with NetDevil. Not liking this one bit. Eh, at least I'll have BIONICLE(and its movie) to keep me waiting. Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Post by: Magical Girl Mimi on February 17, 2009, 05:04:08 pm Well, just think. This game was announced back in 2007. They have had 2 years to create the game, and obviously that wasn't what they were doing. Take a look at Adventure Quest Worlds. It was announced around January or February 2008, opened Alpha testing around May or so, ended Beta and went into the public version in October. It doesn't even need to take 2 years to build a MMOG. I agree with him here, this is just not right >_> And what are they gonna do, release more challenges? There's only so many things that can tide people over until they want the actual thing.Nah, they probably spent all their time drawing up concept art, being late with their newsletters, and just plain slacking off >_> And you're right about the kids on the LMBs not going to be happy. Aren't they already somewhat complaining about it taking so long? Oh, and to put it into perspective, when it was first announce, it was supposed to be Fall '08, and everyone was annoyed when they said '09 was when it was released. Now they go and do this? =/ KZ: Same here. And how much do you think, after ALL this, it's gonna be pay to play, with like 15 dollars a month? And no beta testing because that'll be all in-company >_> Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Post by: Jade on February 17, 2009, 05:04:16 pm I'll keep you guys updated...
Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Trijhak on February 17, 2009, 05:11:02 pm Blade: I hope it's released EARLY 2010(january). And Beta Testing should begin Fall(sept or oct).
That would be better. Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Jade on February 17, 2009, 05:16:02 pm ... well, I better go break the news to The Lego Union over on GS... :-\
Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Magical Girl Mimi on February 17, 2009, 05:20:00 pm Blade: I hope it's released EARLY 2010(january). And Beta Testing should begin Fall(sept or oct). If there's Beta testing for the public. And meh, I say don't get your hopes up myself =/That would be better. Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Jade on February 17, 2009, 05:22:12 pm Blade: I hope it's released EARLY 2010(january). And Beta Testing should begin Fall(sept or oct). If there's Beta testing for the public. And meh, I say don't get your hopes up myself =/That would be better. Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Jade on February 17, 2009, 05:27:01 pm I think they don't have any ideas on how the game is going to come together, so they're stalling for time.
Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: 0PureChaos0 on February 17, 2009, 05:27:32 pm I was looking forward to it. :'(
By the time it comes out 1/2 of the rank 5ers will probably be rank 10! >:( Next thing you know, there going to delay the Glatorian Arena. :( Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Jade on February 17, 2009, 05:32:00 pm I do believe that. Especially because they haven't updated anything about the game on the LU site, or on Net-Devil's site.
Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: MsRowdyRedhead on February 17, 2009, 05:34:13 pm THIS REALLY STINKS...
I guess I can take the pellet module down now... Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Jade on February 17, 2009, 05:37:26 pm THIS REALLY STINKS... I'd keep it up. They're still going to release the networkers...I guess I can take the pellet module down now... Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: B~T on February 17, 2009, 05:41:31 pm A year delay is a big outrage. They plan to release it in 2007, now delayed for 3 years. This is a plenty amount of time for creating a game. If there is another delay in the game release, then I'm going to watch people post on the LMBs about how LEGO doesn't care about customer satisfaction.
*10 years later from now* LEGO UNIVERSE IS FINALLY RELEASED! Yay. Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Magical Girl Mimi on February 17, 2009, 05:45:08 pm I was looking forward to it. :'( Oh no, don't say that >_< We don't want a repeat of the Spinner Challenge incident... >_>By the time it comes out 1/2 of the rank 5ers will probably be rank 10! >:( Next thing you know, there going to delay the Glatorian Arena. :( Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: MsRowdyRedhead on February 17, 2009, 05:47:54 pm Well, I will bet that someone posts this news on LMB before LEGO does...
Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Magical Girl Mimi on February 17, 2009, 05:48:51 pm Ten to one it'll happen. Who here wants to help out by posting it? =P
Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Obi on February 17, 2009, 05:50:17 pm THIS REALLY STINKS... I'd keep it up. They're still going to release the networkers...I guess I can take the pellet module down now... Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Magical Girl Mimi on February 17, 2009, 05:52:30 pm Also, who wants to post it on BZP? =P
THIS REALLY STINKS... I'd keep it up. They're still going to release the networkers...I guess I can take the pellet module down now... Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Magical Girl Mimi on February 17, 2009, 05:57:35 pm That shouldn't take long enough that they have to take another year to finish the game. The animations could be done by Lego themselves, or at least the people working on MLN.
Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Trijhak on February 17, 2009, 06:16:50 pm What's your BZP name? I can help (and so can Blade, we're both on BZP)
LEGO Universe is probably gonna be a dissapointment. It's Like they did absolutely nothing with it until now and have only recently actually started working on it. However, it better be Good Quality and not poor quality. Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: MsRowdyRedhead on February 17, 2009, 06:24:18 pm I believe it is delayed because of glitches... It may effect MLN, and I don't think they want that.
But it may also be delayed because of money... it costs money to make an MMOG. And it will also cost money to play... and people are not overflowing with money right now. Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: MLXTRM on February 17, 2009, 06:28:31 pm *Isn't surprised* *looks at new Racers game* - oh wait there isn't one.
I do like that phrase "strategic optimization", it's the best way to disguise layoffs I've heard. Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Magical Girl Mimi on February 17, 2009, 06:55:49 pm I believe it is delayed because of glitches... It may effect MLN, and I don't think they want that. *Points at AdventureQuest Worlds*But it may also be delayed because of money... it costs money to make an MMOG. And it will also cost money to play... and people are not overflowing with money right now. And yes CRX... *Looks at new Racers game, then realizes there isn't one* I bet the new Racers game will come out with Lego Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: MsRowdyRedhead on February 17, 2009, 08:02:47 pm From MLNTEAM:
Quote from: lindavz http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2009/02/17/lego-universe-delayed/ LEGO MMO Will Eventually Come To Consoles Posted by Tracey John on 2/17/09 at 4:00 pm. The project lead on “LEGO Universe” talked about the company’s plans on developing the game for consoles. He also said that although the LEGO MMO won’t be out this year, we can expect other LEGO titles in the interim. *** Today, the LEGO Group announced their “strategic decision” to delay their LEGO MMO until after 2009 so as to not conflict with the release of other LEGO toy products. I also got a chance to speak with LEGO’s Director of Business Development and “LEGO Universe” Project Lead Mark Hansen about console development and what other things the company has up its sleeve. Here’s the rest of my interview from earlier today. MTV Multiplayer: Are you concerned about too many LEGO games flooding the market, particularly with the successful TT Games offerings like “LEGO Star Wars,” “LEGO Indiana Jones” and “LEGO Batman”? LEGO’s Mark Hansen: That’s a very valid question, and it’s definitely a portfolio management thing. It is about the spread, when to bring them out. But I think for ‘Lego Universe,’ [it's] not so much that, because I think it’ll be around for 10-plus years. And we don’t view it as, ‘Okay, if a game comes out we can’t launch another video game.’ It’s more about the physical product we have right now and how much market focus and how much other campaigns that we have thriving right now, and how much market conflict do we create with our main business. We think that ‘Lego Universe’ is a very strong offering and we want to have a window where we really push that product when we launch it. MTV Multiplayer: As the director of business development, can you tell us what’s going on with the other LEGO games? Hansen: I’m not in the position to actually comment on that right now, but we do work very close with [developer of "LEGO Batman"] TT Games and ["LEGO Universe" developer] NetDevil about how we operate. It’s very open, and we’re pretty much in contact on a daily and weekly basis. As far as announcing games, I can’t go further beyond that. MTV Multiplayer: Are we going to see any more LEGO games in 2009? Hansen: You will see more games in 2009. Multiplayer: Have you decided on a business model yet for “LEGO Universe”? Hansen: I think it’ll be a regular subscription fee, but as of right now what will be free, or free content to play, hasn’t been decided yet. I’m sure there will be different angles on how to play the game when that time comes. MTV Multiplayer: I know many adults love Legos too, but do you think it’s hard to make this game for both adults and children? Hansen: I think this is what TT Games — and what NetDevil is doing — is very good at. They’re finding that ability to bridge cross-generations into the gameplay. We see a lot of parents playing with their kids in “[LEGO] Star Wars” and “[LEGO] Indiana Jones” and different games that we have, so this is definitely something that has proven to be very successful for us. That’s the gameplay we want to bring to “LEGO Universe.” Cross-generation? Definitely, and there’s a market out there for LEGO. The first kids who have grown up with Lego are coming to be adults. That’s the big focus for us; finding the cross-generation LEGO gameplay in a virtual world. … We also have a very strong community around LEGO and LEGO gameplay. From the beginning, for us, we haven’t pointed directly at kids but we do make it safe for kids. We see “Lego Universe” as a game for [all] ages. MTV Multiplayer: Lately, there’s been a big push for MMOs on consoles. Do you see “LEGO Universe” coming to consoles? Hansen: I definitely see “LEGO Universe” coming to consoles. When? I know there’s a few other [MMO] titles in the works coming onto consoles. We’re still evaluating when it would be best to come out on console. MTV Multiplayer: So you’re saying it’s only a matter of time before “LEGO Universe” comes out on console, but probably not at launch? Hansen: Yes, I think that’s a good response! [laughs] We’ve been working on the MMO for PC, and at the time we’re not in console development for “LEGO Universe.” MTV Multiplayer: Do you think it’s a major setback developing for consoles later? Because a lot of companies now are developing MMOs for consoles and PC simultaneously. Hansen: We definitely think about that, and I think there are a lot of aspects to it. We could talk all day about the pluses and minuses. [laughs] The thing is, we have it on our radar, and we’re looking at it. It’s just when would be the right time for it to come onto a console. *** Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Obi on February 17, 2009, 08:18:03 pm Quote That's what bugged me the most about that entire response. "Strategic Optimization". Yeah, basically you're holding it off for another year for reasons you won't really explain in detail, at least that we can fully believe, but we know that the reasons are "optimistic". Yee, I'm jumping for joy! I finally understand their plan now! By setting it back another year, that makes all of us happier! That's such a smart move on their part! I never saw it coming![/sarcasm] I'm really ticked off right now. Or maybe they're too lazy to start... It wouldn't be the first time... *coughthearcademodulesandvokour'sdupscough* Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: uraw911 on February 17, 2009, 08:42:27 pm This link was on wikipedia: HERE (http://kotaku.com/5155014/lego-universe-wont-arrive-this-year)
Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Flipz on February 17, 2009, 11:21:14 pm I'm actually glad they're delaying it. Don't get me wrong, I want to play LU just as much as you do, but now I have more time to write and release my story serials. I'll probably end up with 1-2 more stories after "Ray of Hope" now.
Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: abolute_Z3R0 on February 18, 2009, 10:19:01 am Quote What? What? What? FailFailFailFaiFaiFaiFaiFaiFa FaFaFaFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF *explodes* "Strategic Optimization"? What? That's a load of you-know-what. This is their most anticipated release for LEGO since, maybe, ever. EVERYONE is waiting for this. And now, they're going to delay its release, just so they can give us a bunch of worse LEGO games? What the heck? Psh. Economics 101. There's a limit to how much anticipation you can build up in your fans. Building anticipation is good, but this is a step too far. This is Super Smash Bros. Brawl all over again. What a nightmare. >_< I think this is actually going to turn away fans, not build more anticipation. People are already overly psyched for it as it is, and to have to wait 1+ more years, with no real estimate of a release date? Wow. What poor planning. *Agrees* ;D Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: korchi12 on February 18, 2009, 01:19:09 pm Terrible, just terrible. What poor planning. I have less respect for this game already...
Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Jade on February 18, 2009, 03:12:23 pm Quote Psh. No kidding. Let us know if the topic gets accepted...I've already notified people on the LMB. I made a new topic entitled "LEGO Universe Unavailable Until 2010". Next, I'm on to BZPower. Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: MsRowdyRedhead on February 18, 2009, 03:17:59 pm I posted it on LMB too... immediately after I posted here... we'll see if they even let it through.
Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Jade on February 18, 2009, 03:19:03 pm Same here. I doubt it will go through... but its worth a shot.
Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: MsRowdyRedhead on February 18, 2009, 05:15:08 pm Something is bound to get through...
I actually posted it once as a topic, and a few times around the board as comments ( eg one in free brick news, etc) on the principle that it's all different mods... Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Ddude The Insane on February 18, 2009, 08:55:41 pm i am so angry!!!!!!!
Also,i saw that news before i came here and saw it.This could have been my subject! *hatches evil plan involving time travel* Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: MsRowdyRedhead on February 18, 2009, 09:21:41 pm It does give insight into one's personality when they feel the need to make that kind of comment tho... I have seen several people now say... Oh I had that idea, or oh, I knew that... If someone else had the idea first, leave it alone!
Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Jade on February 19, 2009, 01:12:19 pm Something is bound to get through... same here. But, the LMB's haven't been updated...I actually posted it once as a topic, and a few times around the board as comments ( eg one in free brick news, etc) on the principle that it's all different mods... Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Ddude The Insane on February 19, 2009, 03:12:54 pm I made a "Hurry Up!" petition,,hoping it would be approved and people support it,but nothing yet.
Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: MsRowdyRedhead on February 19, 2009, 03:32:02 pm http://messageboards.lego.com/en-US/showpost.aspx?PageIndex=41&PostID=2047271
IT'S IN THE FREE BRICK NEWS!!! Quote MSROWDYREDHEAD - 17 February 2009 11 26 PM LU RELEASE DATE POSTPONED!!!! QUOTE:: NetDevil-developed MMOG based on Danish building-block toys no longer expected to arrive in 2009; no new release window announced. The LEGO Group did not reveal an updated release window for LEGO Universe. However, a representative did tell GameSpot that the in-development MMOG will be shown in greater detail at this year's Game Developers Conference, which runs from March 23-27 in San Francisco. Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Magical Girl Mimi on February 19, 2009, 03:43:11 pm 0_o They even allowed the name of a site with forums in...
Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Obi on February 19, 2009, 05:22:51 pm Well, they came up with a good-looking excuse...
"The LEGO Group has an exciting vision for our first massively multiplayer online game (MMOG). We’re aiming not just to make a virtual world, but to co-create an entire LEGO Universe® with fans like you from around the world. We have communicated and shared creative ideas with fans since the very beginning of the game’s development. This unique approach is working even better than we originally imagined. The LEGO Universe team has decided to delay the game’s launch so that it gets the full attention of our company and fans when it makes it’s public debut. We have a ton of cool new products planned for release in 2009, and want to continue developing the game to make sure that LEGO Universe becomes a truly great game and LEGO experience. We believe that we are building a LEGO Universe worth waiting for, and appreciate your patience – and help – as the game comes to life. Your support is clear – from the art, ideas and models you contribute to the LEGO Creation Lab, to insightful and interesting comments on the message boards, you continue to inspire our development team as they construct a truly original MMOG. LEGO Universe’s development is coming along very well, and as you will see from the latest images included here, there is a lot of fun and adventure brewing! The good news is that we now have more time to make LEGO Universe even better for you. In the meantime, you can keep your building skills sharp and continue to enjoy your favorite LEGO activities, games and challenges on My LEGO Network, LEGO.com and our console games LEGO® Star Wars™, LEGO® Batman™ and LEGO® Indiana Jones™. One of our goals is for LEGO Universe to deliver nothing less than the ultimate online play experience. A guiding motto coined by the LEGO Group’s founder, Ole Kirk Christiansen, more than 75 years ago: “Only the best is good enough.” " And click on this to see some awesome pics at the bottom of the page! (http://universe.lego.com/en-us/newsnetwork/story.aspx?id=101699) Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Jade on February 19, 2009, 05:30:30 pm Huh. I saw this pics already on... some other site, but forgot exactly which site it was on.
Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Obi on February 19, 2009, 06:49:07 pm I still think their excuse is lame...
Quote from: The LEGO Club has an exciting vision for our first massively multiplayer online game (MMOG). We're aiming not just to make a virtual world, but to co-create an entire LEGO Universe® with fans like you from around the world. I mean, duh! It's called LEGO Universe, not LEGO World... Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Ddude The Insane on February 19, 2009, 07:29:14 pm Well, they came up with a good-looking excuse... i read it too.that is the cheesiest excuse ever ::)."The LEGO Group has an exciting vision for our first massively multiplayer online game (MMOG). We’re aiming not just to make a virtual world, but to co-create an entire LEGO Universe® with fans like you from around the world. We have communicated and shared creative ideas with fans since the very beginning of the game’s development. This unique approach is working even better than we originally imagined. The LEGO Universe team has decided to delay the game’s launch so that it gets the full attention of our company and fans when it makes it’s public debut. We have a ton of cool new products planned for release in 2009, and want to continue developing the game to make sure that LEGO Universe becomes a truly great game and LEGO experience. We believe that we are building a LEGO Universe worth waiting for, and appreciate your patience – and help – as the game comes to life. Your support is clear – from the art, ideas and models you contribute to the LEGO Creation Lab, to insightful and interesting comments on the message boards, you continue to inspire our development team as they construct a truly original MMOG. LEGO Universe’s development is coming along very well, and as you will see from the latest images included here, there is a lot of fun and adventure brewing! The good news is that we now have more time to make LEGO Universe even better for you. In the meantime, you can keep your building skills sharp and continue to enjoy your favorite LEGO activities, games and challenges on My LEGO Network, LEGO.com and our console games LEGO® Star Wars™, LEGO® Batman™ and LEGO® Indiana Jones™. One of our goals is for LEGO Universe to deliver nothing less than the ultimate online play experience. A guiding motto coined by the LEGO Group’s founder, Ole Kirk Christiansen, more than 75 years ago: “Only the best is good enough.” " And click on this to see some awesome pics at the bottom of the page! (http://universe.lego.com/en-us/newsnetwork/story.aspx?id=101699) Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: MsRowdyRedhead on February 19, 2009, 10:16:55 pm A theory I have formed, after reading everything I could find on this.
LU costs money to CREATE Even though LEGO turned a profit last year, it was drastically less than anticipated. The 2008 toy line was not as well received as they had hoped. They are banking on sales from the 2009 toy line to finance the completion of LU. I'm just saying. Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Magical Girl Mimi on February 20, 2009, 06:40:06 am A theory I have formed, after reading everything I could find on this. Actually, MMOGs only requires money really to get and host the servers. They already have Flash, so that cost is gone. Ok, hiring a company like NetDevil raised the cost... But would it really be by that much?LU costs money to CREATE Even though LEGO turned a profit last year, it was drastically less than anticipated. The 2008 toy line was not as well received as they had hoped. They are banking on sales from the 2009 toy line to finance the completion of LU. I'm just saying. Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Ddude The Insane on February 20, 2009, 11:42:23 am i think they just want more sets in,for the experience.
still,they gave the WORST excuse ever. Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Trijhak on February 20, 2009, 01:05:41 pm They want LU to have full attention when it gets released? That is the worse excuse ever.
It will never get FULL attention from everybody, you know, because not everyone on LEGO.com will want to play it. Title: Re: Lego Universe is delayed in coming out. Source: Jedi Jade Post by: Ddude The Insane on February 20, 2009, 01:06:57 pm Hmmmmmmmm........i never thought of that second part.
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