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ILLEGAL ALIENS IN THE USA

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« on: October 08, 2009, 02:55:03 pm »

IF YOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOR......

IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY....

BUT,  IF YOU CROSS THE U.S. BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET:
 
           1.   A DRIVERS LICENSE
           2.   A SOCIAL SECURITY CARD
           3.   WELFARE
           4.   FOOD STAMPS AND
           5.   FREE HEALTH CARE!
 


What do YOU think we should do about illegal aliens in the USA?
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« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2009, 02:58:27 pm »

REALLY?

That explains sooooooooooooooooooo much.
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« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2009, 03:06:28 pm »

*begins plot on how to make the government think he immigrated illegally*
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« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2009, 03:57:30 pm »

The people that are in Washington tell us they cannot
deport 12 million illegals? We probably need to vote all of
them out of office and send them back to school to learn
history! We pay more to illegal's in welfare than it
would cost to deport them! Our career politicians need to
work for the voters and the good of the United States of
America .


HOOVER, TRUMAN AND EISENHOWER
Back during The Great Depression,
President Herbert Hoover ordered the deportation of ALL
illegal aliens in order to make jobs available to American
citizens that desperately needed work.

Harry Truman deported over two million Illegal's after
WWII to create jobs for returning veterans.

And then again in 1954, President Dwight Eisenhower
deported 13 million Mexican nationals! The program was
called 'Operation Wetback' so that American WWII and
Korean veterans had a better chance at jobs. It took 2
Years, but they deported them!

Now, if they could deport the illegal's back then, they
can sure do it today!! I lf you have doubts about the
veracity of this information, enter Operation Wetback into
your favorite search engine and confirm it for yourself.
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« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2009, 04:12:45 pm »

As usual, the problem is a bunch of politicians squabbling over power, and not over what matters.
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We've been observing out here in Arizona that the people in power who shout loudest about "the law is the law" and "what about illegal don't you understand" are usually the biggest lawbreakers here. Par for the course.
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« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2009, 05:22:09 pm »

Get this driver: If politicians talked about what mattered and not about stupid things like who's tie is classier, this topic would not exist  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2009, 06:18:08 pm »

UHM. could we stay ON topic?
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« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2009, 01:24:13 pm »

I think we should make LAWS about these aliens, ENFORCE those laws, and SEND those who didn't get here LEGALLY back.

As I've stated before, all my grandparents and my mom worked HARD to get here.

It'd be nice for people to actually WORK for something so wanted in the world.




Although... with the way our country is heading, I'm starting to consider moving to another country >.<
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« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2009, 09:10:05 pm »

IF YOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOR......

IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY....

BUT,  IF YOU CROSS THE U.S. BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET:
 
           1.   A DRIVERS LICENSE
           2.   A SOCIAL SECURITY CARD
           3.   WELFARE
           4.   FOOD STAMPS AND
           5.   FREE HEALTH CARE!
 


What do YOU think we should do about illegal aliens in the USA?


While this is true, many illegal aliens keep our country running by working low paying jobs(very high paying for their standards) that many "regular" Americans wouldn't dream of doing(garbage pick-up and disposal, cleaning houses, cleaning airport restrooms, working gas stations, ect).
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« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2009, 09:22:15 pm »

This is the only subject that I agree with designerdude. And I never thought that would ever ever EVER happen in my life.

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« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2009, 09:28:02 pm »

IF YOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOR......

IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY....

BUT,  IF YOU CROSS THE U.S. BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET:
 
           1.   A DRIVERS LICENSE
           2.   A SOCIAL SECURITY CARD
           3.   WELFARE
           4.   FOOD STAMPS AND
           5.   FREE HEALTH CARE!
 


What do YOU think we should do about illegal aliens in the USA?


While this is true, many illegal aliens keep our country running by working low paying jobs(very high paying for their standards) that many "regular" Americans wouldn't dream of doing(garbage pick-up and disposal, cleaning houses, cleaning airport restrooms, working gas stations, ect).

Let them enter LEGALLY and work then! They are a tremendous burden on this country. If they want to be here, they should do so legally,  learn to speak English, and pay taxes!
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« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2009, 09:33:33 pm »

IF YOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOR......

IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY....

BUT,  IF YOU CROSS THE U.S. BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET:
 
           1.   A DRIVERS LICENSE
           2.   A SOCIAL SECURITY CARD
           3.   WELFARE
           4.   FOOD STAMPS AND
           5.   FREE HEALTH CARE!
 


What do YOU think we should do about illegal aliens in the USA?


While this is true, many illegal aliens keep our country running by working low paying jobs(very high paying for their standards) that many "regular" Americans wouldn't dream of doing(garbage pick-up and disposal, cleaning houses, cleaning airport restrooms, working gas stations, ect).

Let them enter LEGALLY and work then! They are a tremendous burden on this country. If they want to be here, they should do so legally,  learn to speak English, and pay taxes!
I'm not saying that what they do is right, I'm saying that without them, America wouldn't do very well at this point.
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« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2009, 09:39:18 pm »

IF YOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOR......

IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY....

BUT,  IF YOU CROSS THE U.S. BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET:
 
           1.   A DRIVERS LICENSE
           2.   A SOCIAL SECURITY CARD
           3.   WELFARE
           4.   FOOD STAMPS AND
           5.   FREE HEALTH CARE!
 


What do YOU think we should do about illegal aliens in the USA?


While this is true, many illegal aliens keep our country running by working low paying jobs(very high paying for their standards) that many "regular" Americans wouldn't dream of doing(garbage pick-up and disposal, cleaning houses, cleaning airport restrooms, working gas stations, ect).

Let them enter LEGALLY and work then! They are a tremendous burden on this country. If they want to be here, they should do so legally,  learn to speak English, and pay taxes!
I'm not saying that what they do is right, I'm saying that without them, America wouldn't do very well at this point.

Without them, and the TAX burden their cheating creates on tax payers, employers could pay more, and more tax payers could have work.
There is NO upside to illegal immigration.  Anyone who has told you their is is probably paying an illegal under the table and trying to justify their own misdeed.
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« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2009, 04:18:34 pm »

IF YOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOR......

IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY....

BUT,  IF YOU CROSS THE U.S. BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET:
 
           1.   A DRIVERS LICENSE
           2.   A SOCIAL SECURITY CARD
           3.   WELFARE
           4.   FOOD STAMPS AND
           5.   FREE HEALTH CARE!
 


What do YOU think we should do about illegal aliens in the USA?


While this is true, many illegal aliens keep our country running by working low paying jobs(very high paying for their standards) that many "regular" Americans wouldn't dream of doing(garbage pick-up and disposal, cleaning houses, cleaning airport restrooms, working gas stations, ect).

Let them enter LEGALLY and work then! They are a tremendous burden on this country. If they want to be here, they should do so legally,  learn to speak English, and pay taxes!
I'm not saying that what they do is right, I'm saying that without them, America wouldn't do very well at this point.
But unfortunately, the government thinks they should have insurance, citizenship, and so much more like the American resident. Why, on earth! should they be rewarded for that? Not to mention, they do not "pay" tax.
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« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2009, 08:20:22 pm »

Easy answer: This is the Americans country. If they want to come over here, they can apply the legal way. Otherwise, the government needs to take action with this problem...but considering the democrats are in charge, nothing will happen....
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« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2009, 08:23:09 pm »

Thank you; there are borders for a reason. When I went to Canada, the customs officers are pretty strict. Why can't we get any better than a wire fence for Mexico, I ask.

The only part I don't agree with is that last part. Republicans and Democrats alike are messing up this country.
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« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2009, 08:38:53 pm »

Thank you; there are borders for a reason. When I went to Canada, the customs officers are pretty strict. Why can't we get any better than a wire fence for Mexico, I ask.

The only part I don't agree with is that last part. Republicans and Democrats alike are messing up this country.

Um....I know, but the Republicans would haev sent the extra troops to Afghanistan instead of arguing over it....

Now to get back on topic, they need an electric fence, and National Guardsmen to patrol everything.
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« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2009, 09:32:15 pm »

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, give me a break. If they want a better life, they can enter LEGALLY, become CITIZENS, and PAY TAXES, like my forefathers did. I fail to see why LEGAL Americans and LEGAL immigrants should have a LESSER life because ILLEGALS don't obey our laws and the liberals in charge don't have enough cheechees to do something about it!!

And if your uncle is an illegal alien, he has no way to pay taxes.

The AMERICAN PHILOSOPHY is built around LEGAL IMMIGRATION..

Anyone who doesn't understand the difference between LEGAL and ILLEGAL immigration, please get your head out of your shorts and look it up!!

as for NEEDING illegal imigrants.. BULLony..
[spoiler]
The High Cost of Cheap Labor
Illegal Immigration and the Federal Budget


Executive Summary By the Center for Immigration Studies

This study is one of the first to estimate the total impact of illegal immigration on the federal budget. Most previous studies have focused on the state and local level and have examined only costs or tax payments, but not both. Based on Census Bureau data, this study finds that, when all taxes paid (direct and indirect) and all costs are considered, illegal households created a net fiscal deficit at the federal level of more than $10 billion in 2002. We also estimate that, if there was an amnesty for illegal aliens, the net fiscal deficit would grow to nearly $29 billion.

Among the findings:

    *

      Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household.
      
    *

      Among the largest costs are Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).
      
    *

      With nearly two-thirds of illegal aliens lacking a high school degree, the primary reason they create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and tax payments, not their legal status or heavy use of most social services.
      
    *

      On average, the costs that illegal households impose on federal coffers are less than half that of other households, but their tax payments are only one-fourth that of other households.
      
    *

      Many of the costs associated with illegals are due to their American-born children, who are awarded U.S. citizenship at birth. Thus, greater efforts at barring illegals from federal programs will not reduce costs because their citizen children can continue to access them.
      
    *

      If illegal aliens were given amnesty and began to pay taxes and use services like households headed by legal immigrants with the same education levels, the estimated annual net fiscal deficit would increase from $2,700 per household to nearly $7,700, for a total net cost of $29 billion.
      
    *

      Costs increase dramatically because unskilled immigrants with legal status -- what most illegal aliens would become -- can access government programs, but still tend to make very modest tax payments.
      
    *

      Although legalization would increase average tax payments by 77 percent, average costs would rise by 118 percent.
      
    *

      The fact that legal immigrants with few years of schooling are a large fiscal drain does not mean that legal immigrants overall are a net drain -- many legal immigrants are highly skilled.
      
    *

      The vast majority of illegals hold jobs. Thus the fiscal deficit they create for the federal government is not the result of an unwillingness to work.
      
    *

      The results of this study are consistent with a 1997 study by the National Research Council, which also found that immigrants' education level is a key determinant of their fiscal impact.

A Complex Fiscal Picture
Welfare use. Our findings show that many of the preconceived notions about the fiscal impact of illegal households turn out to be inaccurate. In terms of welfare use, receipt of cash assistance programs tends to be very low, while Medicaid use, though significant, is still less than for other households. Only use of food assistance programs is significantly higher than that of the rest of the population. Also, contrary to the perceptions that illegal aliens don't pay payroll taxes, we estimate that more than half of illegals work "on the books." On average, illegal households pay more than $4,200 a year in all forms of federal taxes. Unfortunately, they impose costs of $6,950 per household.



Social Security and Medicare. Although we find that the net effect of illegal households is negative at the federal level, the same is not true for Social Security and Medicare. We estimate that illegal households create a combined net benefit for these two programs in excess of $7 billion a year, accounting for about 4 percent of the total annual surplus in these two programs. However, they create a net deficit of $17.4 billion in the rest of the budget, for a total net loss of $10.4 billion. Nonetheless, their impact on Social Security and Medicare is unambiguously positive. Of course, if the Social Security totalization agreement with Mexico signed in June goes into effect, allowing illegals to collect Social Security, these calculations would change.

The Impact of Amnesty. Finally, our estimates show that amnesty would significantly increase tax revenue. Because both their income and tax compliance would rise, we estimate that under the most likely scenario the average illegal alien household would pay 77 percent ($3,200) more a year in federal taxes once legalized. While not enough to offset the 118 percent ($8,200) per household increase in costs that would come with legalization, amnesty would significantly increase both the average income and tax payments of illegal aliens.

What's Different About Today's Immigration. Many native-born Americans observe that their ancestors came to America and did not place great demands on government services. Perhaps this is true, but the size and scope of government were dramatically smaller during the last great wave of immigration. Not just means-tested programs, but expenditures on everything from public schools to roads were only a fraction of what they are today. Thus, the arrival of unskilled immigrants in the past did not have the negative fiscal implications that it does today. Moreover, the American economy has changed profoundly since the last great wave of immigration, with education now the key determinant of economic success. The costs that unskilled immigrants impose simply reflect the nature of the modern American economy and welfare state. It is doubtful that the fiscal costs can be avoided if our immigration policies remain unchanged.

Policy Implications
The negative impact on the federal budget need not be the only or even the primary consideration when deciding what to do about illegal immigration. But assuming that the fiscal status quo is unacceptable, there are three main changes in policy that might reduce or eliminate the fiscal costs of illegal immigration. One set of options is to allow illegal aliens to remain in the country, but attempt to reduce the costs they impose. A second set of options would be to grant them legal status as a way of increasing the taxes they pay. A third option would be to enforce the law and reduce the size of the illegal population and with it the costs of illegal immigration.

Reducing the Cost Side of the Equation. Reducing the costs illegals impose would probably be the most difficult of the three options because illegal households already impose only about 46 percent as much in costs on the federal government as other households. Thus, the amount of money that can be saved by curtailing their use of public services even further is probably quite limited. Moreover, the fact that benefits are often received on behalf of their U.S.-citizen children means that it is very difficult to prevent illegal households from accessing the programs they do. And many of the programs illegals use most extensively are likely to be politically very difficult to cut, such as the Women Infants and Children (WIC) nutrition program. Other costs, such as incarcerating illegals who have been convicted of crimes are unavoidable. It seems almost certain that if illegals are allowed to remain in the country, the fiscal deficit will persist.

Increasing Tax Revenue by Granting Amnesty. As discussed above, our research shows that granting illegal aliens amnesty would dramatically increase tax revenue. Unfortunately, we find that costs would increase even more. Costs would rise dramatically because illegals would be able to access many programs that are currently off limits to them. Moreover, even if legalized illegal aliens continued to be barred from using some means-tested programs, they would still be much more likely to sign their U.S.-citizen children up for them because they would lose whatever fear they had of the government. We know this because immigrants with legal status, who have the same education levels and resulting low incomes as illegal aliens, sign their U.S.-citizen children up for programs like Medicaid at higher rates than illegal aliens with U.S.-citizen children. In addition, direct costs for programs like the Earned Income Tax Credit would also grow dramatically with legalization. Right now, illegals need a Social Security number and have to file a tax return to get the credit. As a result, relatively few actually get it. We estimate that once legalized, payments to illegals under this program would grow more than ten-fold.

From a purely fiscal point of view, the main problem with legalization is that illegals would, for the most part, become unskilled legal immigrants. And unskilled legal immigrants create much larger fiscal costs than unskilled illegal aliens. Legalization will not change the low education levels of illegal aliens or the fact that the American labor market offers very limited opportunities to such workers, whatever their legal status. Nor will it change the basic fact that the United States, like all industrialized democracies, has a well-developed welfare state that provides assistance to low-income workers. Large fiscal costs are simply an unavoidable outcome of unskilled immigration given the economic and fiscal realities of America today.

Enforcing Immigration Laws. If we are serious about avoiding the fiscal costs of illegal immigration, the only real option is to enforce the law and reduce the number of illegal aliens in the country. First, this would entail much greater efforts to police the nation's land and sea borders. At present, less than 2,000 agents are on duty at any one time on the Mexican and Canadian borders. Second, much greater effort must be made to ensure that those allowed into the country on a temporary basis, such as tourists and guest workers, are not likely to stay in the country permanently. Third, the centerpiece of any enforcement effort would be to enforce the ban on hiring illegal aliens. At present, the law is completely unenforced. Enforcement would require using existing databases to ensure that all new hires are authorized to work in the United States and levying heavy fines on businesses that knowingly employ illegal aliens. Finally, a clear message from policymakers, especially senior members of the administration, that enforcement of the law is valued and vitally important to the nation, would dramatically increase the extremely low morale of those who enforce immigration laws.

Policing the border, enforcing the ban on hiring illegal aliens, denying temporary visas to those likely to remain permanently, and all the other things necessary to reduce illegal immigration will take time and cost money. However, since the cost of illegal immigration to the federal government alone is estimated at over $10 billion a year, significant resources could be devoted to enforcement efforts and still leave taxpayers with significant net savings. Enforcement not only has the advantage of reducing the costs of illegal immigration, it also is very popular with the general public. Nonetheless, policymakers can expect strong opposition from special interest groups, especially ethnic advocacy groups and those elements of the business community that do not want to invest in labor-saving devices and techniques or pay better salaries, but instead want access to large numbers of cheap, unskilled workers. If we choose to continue to not enforce the law or to grant illegals amnesty, both the public and policymakers have to understand that there will be significant long-term costs for taxpayers.

Summary Methodology
Overall Approach. To estimate the impact of households headed by illegal aliens, we rely heavily on the National Research Council's (NRC) 1997 study, "The New Americans." Like that study, we use the March Current Population Survey (CPS) and the decennial Census, both collected by the Census Bureau. We use the March 2003 CPS, which asks questions about income, household structure, and use of public services in the calendar year prior to the survey. We control total federal expenditures and tax receipts by category to reflect actual expenditures and tax payments. Like the NRC, we assume that immigrants have no impact on defense-related expenditures and therefore assign those costs only to native-headed households. Like the NRC, we define a household as persons living together who are related. Individuals living alone or with persons to whom they are unrelated are treated as their own households. As the NRC study points out, a "household is the primary unit through which public services are consumed and taxes paid." Following the NRC's example of using households, many of which include U.S.-citizen children, as the unit of analysis makes sense because the presence of these children and the costs they create are a direct result of their parents having been allowed to enter and remain in country. Thus, counting services used by these children allows for a full accounting of the costs of illegal immigration.

Identifying Illegal Aliens in Census Bureau Data. While the CPS does not ask respondents if they are illegal aliens, the Urban Institute, the former Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS), and the Census Bureau have used socio-demographic characteristics in the data to estimate the size and characteristics of the illegal population. To identify illegal aliens in the survey, we used citizenship status, year of arrival in the United States, age, country of birth, educational attainment, sex, receipt of welfare programs, receipt of Social Security, veteran status, and marital status. This method is based on some very well-established facts about the characteristics of the illegal population. In some cases, we assume that individuals have zero chance of being an illegal alien, such as naturalized citizens, veterans, and individuals who report that they personally receive Social Security benefits or cash assistance from a welfare program or those who are enrolled in Medicaid. However, other members of a household, mainly the U.S.-born children of illegal aliens, can and do receive these programs. We estimate that there were 8.7 million illegal aliens included in the March 2003 CPS. By design, our estimates for the size and characteristics of the illegal population are very similar to those prepared by the Census Bureau, the INS, and the Urban Institute.

Estimating the Impact of Amnesty. We assume that any amnesty that passes Congress will have Lawful Permanent Residence (LPR) as a component. Even though the President's amnesty proposal in January seems to envision "temporary" worker status, every major legalization bill in Congress, including those sponsored by Republican legislators, provides illegal aliens with LPR status at some point in the process. Moreover, Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry has indicated his strong desire to give LPR status to illegal aliens.

To estimate the likely impact of legalization, we run two different simulations. In our first simulation, we assume that legalized illegal aliens would use services and pay taxes like all households headed by legal immigrants with the same characteristics. In this simulation, we control for the education level of the household head and whether the head is from Mexico. The first simulation shows that the net fiscal deficit grows from about $2,700 to more than $6,000 per household. In the second simulation, we again control for education and whether the household head is Mexican and also assume that illegals would become like post-1986 legal immigrants, excluding refugees. Because illegals are much more like recently arrived non-refugees than legal immigrants in general, the second simulation is the more plausible. The second simulation shows that the net fiscal deficit per household would climb to $7,700.


Results Similar to Other Studies. Our overall conclusion that education level is the primary determinant of tax payments made and services used is very similar to the conclusion of the 1997 National Research Council report, "The New Americans." The results of our study also closely match the findings of a 1998 Urban Institute study, which examined tax payments by illegal aliens in New York State. In order to test our results we ran separate estimates for federal taxes and found that, when adjusted for inflation, our estimated federal taxes are almost identical to those of the Urban Institute. The results of this study are also buttressed by an analysis of illegal alien tax returns done by the Inspector General's Office of the Department of Treasury in 2004, which found that about half of illegals had no federal income tax liability, very similar to our finding of 45 percent.
[/spoiler]
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« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2009, 09:37:32 pm »

That's because the government wants to hold illegal aliens in it's land, they make it harder to become a resident/citizen of the US, so then they can give away benefits to illegals, wouldn't you think?
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« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2009, 09:55:52 pm »

Saturn, that comment makes no sense, please be more clear. Thanks.
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