Count to a Million

[Canama]

69400

Revolvers are often used in crimes because they don't automatically eject casings. You have to remove them yourself.

This is why I believe restrictions on handguns should be high on the agenda. It works in many other Western nations - I see no reason why it can't work here.

@MsRR - We can enact gun control AND improve mental health services, you know.

[MsRowdyRedhead]

69401

What other western nations??  UK & Australia both saw a huge increase in violent crime after gun bans were put in place.

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847

The criminals will ALWAYS find a way to have guns.. so a ban for safety sake is ludicrous.

[Trijhak]

69402

69401

What other western nations?? England & Australia both saw a huge increase in violent crime after gun bans were put in place.

English citizen reporting in here, um actually it works here. I don't see as many violent gun-related crimes here as much as I hear about ones in the USA.

[MsRowdyRedhead]

69403

There are more there now than before the gun ban tho.. that's the point.

[Trijhak]

69404

No. There. Aren't. I can tell you that, as I am living in England RIGHT NOW. Right as I type this.

Crimes committed with guns are rare.

Violent crimes =/= gun related crimes. Not all violent crimes are gun related.

[mtmerrick]

I think what she's trying to say is people who would commit a crime with a gun are not stopping committing crimes, they are only switching to different weapons.

While it is true you'll never be able to stop all violence in a society, the fact that your average consumer can buy a freakin machine gun (Yes, i know the difference between a semi-auto and a machine gun) off the shelf is crazy. I'm all for gun rights, but they need to be reined in a bit. And not with these ridiculous laws they're trying to pass now.

69405

[KnightsFan]

69406

I agree with Canama, we should focus more on restricting handguns than reducing the minority of cases that are related to machine guns/semi-auto rifles.

However, another question is: do you want freedom, or safety? People may be safer from murder safer in Oceania in 1984, but that is not a world I want to live in. I'm willing to take risks in the name of liberty, and free will. That's a philosophical question that should be weighed in along with the statistics of which results in fewer deaths.

And, of course, I don't pretend to have the answers, I'm just pointing out something worth considering.

[MsRowdyRedhead]

69406

 "Despite the handguns ban imposed under the 1997 Firearms Amendment, research carried out following the implementation of the Act saw a 40 per cent increase in the number of gun crime incidents in the UK."

http://www.politics.co.uk/reference/gun-crime

[Saturn2.0]

69408

*unsure which stance to take*

[MsRowdyRedhead]

69409

Applaud your honesty, Saturn

[Canama]

69401

What other western nations??  UK & Australia both saw a huge increase in violent crime after gun bans were put in place.

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847

The criminals will ALWAYS find a way to have guns.. so a ban for safety sake is ludicrous.

69410

First off, the source you linked to was a conservative think-tank - not a reliable source. The article's sole source, Free Republic, is well-known as an extreme right-wing site. (My personal favorite incident was back in 2009 when the mods declared an openly racist thread in which the Obamas were referred to as "ghetto trash" by virtue of being black and was deemed "not racist" by site moderators until they were forced to take it down due to backlash. A++ quality material.)

So I'm not inclined to trust it. I'd place it somewhere below FOX News on the scale of trustworthiness, actually - that's saying something.

Also, a 2011 UN study disagrees with you.

"Notwithstanding such challenges, a significant body of literature tends to suggest that firearm availability predominantly represents a risk factor rather than a protective factor for homicide." (Page 43)

"In the Philippines it is illegal to own or possess firearms, including ammunition, without the necessary
license or permit, yet official estimates place the number of firearms at some 360,000 registered and approximately 1.1 million “loose” (never registered or with expired licences) firearms.

"Philippines National Police (PNP) records show that from 2004 to 2009, the proliferation of loose firearms increased by 46 per cent, a figure that is close to the 47 per cent increase in recorded crimes using firearms in the same period.

"During a gun ban enforced for the election period during the first six months of 2010, the PNP claimed a 67 per cent drop in index crime (murder, homicide, physical
injury, robbery, theft and rape) compared with the equivalent period in 2009, and linked this with the gun ban." (Page 47)

Also, if you look at the chart on page 116 you'll see that the firearm ban has helped lower the amount of firearm homicides most years in the UK (with the notable exception of 2001, and several that showed no significant change).

Your "right" to own a gun does NOT supersede my right to live a safe life.

[mtmerrick]

@Canama's post: Why is there no like button?

69411

[Ddude The Insane]

69411

I say we train every US citizen to be like Jason Bourne. I know that would cost a lot of money, but I feel like that would fix a lot of problems.

[MsRowdyRedhead]

69413

The UN is on a mission to disarm the world, so I find them to be no less biased than my source, which was just the first thing that came up when I googled.

Additionally, you omitted the fact that
The National Center for Policy Analysis (NCPA) is a non-profit American conservative think tank whose goals are to develop and promote private alternatives to government regulation and control. Topics addressed include reforms in health care, taxes, Social Security, welfare, education and environmental regulation.

The gun control debate topic is available to continue this conversation.

AND FYI... You are Guaranteed LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS..  not safety.. which is at best an illusion.
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

[mtmerrick]

At what point does life ≠ safety?

69414

[MsRowdyRedhead]

69415

It never has... don't they teach history any more??

[Trijhak]

69416

Don't try to take the condescending tone. It changes nothing.

Life shouldn't equal safety? You know what, let's take away all of our laws! Let's let criminals commit crimes! We don't need no stinking safety! You know what, let's reduce all hospitals to dust too! [/sarcasm]

Everyone deserves safety. Your selfish desire for more liberty should not override that, in a world when we already have a lot of it. Safety is just as important as anything else.

Final point:

AMERICAN VALUES DO NOT SHAPE THE REST OF THE WORLD!

[Magical Girl Mimi]

69417

I don't think that Skrief's taking the right tone with this; however, I have to agree with him on the final point; people are different everywhere; everyone has different values. The ever present fight in the software industry that's trying to change the internet should show that.

Also; what's wrong with disarming the world; if everyone is disarmed?

[MsRowdyRedhead]

69418

Because the criminals would not be disarmed Blade.. only the law abiding citizens. Criminals would still have guns.
Hitler and Mao both disarmed the country in the name of safety.

And Skrief.. 1 I was not condescending.
2. Canama said  Your "right" to own a gun does NOT supersede my right to live a safe life.
The Constitution of the United States..(where the gun debate is going on) guarantees the right to bear arms. It also guarantees LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS.. 
It does not guarantee safety.. which is at best an illusion in any country..
One of our founding fathers siad
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
But apparently that is no longer taught in history class.

Having or NOT having guns does NOT equal safety in ANY country. Safety is about having common sense and using it.. we do not outlaw stove tops.. we teach kids not to touch them. We do not outlaw cars , we teach kids to look both ways.

FINALLY... *puts on admin hat*  this discussion may be carried forth in the GUN CONTROL DEBATE as mentioned several posts ago.
It does not belong here and I should not have allowed it to continue.

On another note...

[Trijhak]

69419

May I remind you what topic this is?

It is a topic where literally ANYTHING can be discussed. Both NOTHING and EVERYTHING belongs in this almost purposeless place. Your implication that we are uneducated is offensive and very condescending. I, at least, know quite a bit about history. Your authority does not supersede Blade's. Blade has the higher authority here, as the head admin of the site. And he let it continue. And I don't care if he's too scared of you to say otherwise, because he shouldn't be. Because he's got the higher authority.

You are a very horrible person if you are willing to give up safety for such a ####### stupid reason. Here's something you need to understand: people, surprisingly, WANT TO LIVE A LIFE WITHOUT FEAR! It's not that hard to comprehend. And GUESS WHAT?! Safety from violence is a generally agreed upon human ####### right! Tradition should not mean safety should be dismissed, and another thing... a quote from a man living in a different age does not necessarily apply to the current age. In an age where safety could be possible without giving up anything else, it should not be dismissed simply because old people want it like it's always been.

oh look, another one of my six-monthly outbursts of rage that has built up, except extraordinarily quickly this time! and this time, i'll try to make an effort not to care about the consequences. MTM, if you see this, message me on Steam when I'm online please. I want to talk. You're one of the few people keeping me sane. And to anyone else, yes, I know I'm an idiot. The bad, annoying kind. brought to you by the 'skrief is about to get banned' corporation. (yes I know I can predict the future about five minutes only though)