Pokémon General Discussion

[.]

@Period:  You know, it's funny.  As a matter of fact, not only are you using the same ideals and language that ZLS used until I persuaded him otherwise, but even more odd is that the same Pokemon is being fought over.  Arcanine is much worse.  Infernape is one of the best sweepers in standard play, and the fact that his physical and special capabilities are both great make him an even greater threat, because that makes him that much more unpredictable.  And honestly, looking for "balanced" stats isn't the thing a competitive battler would do.  If that were the case, Blissey, for example, would NEVER be used, and Pokemon like Arcanine, the likes of UU and NU, would run rampant.  Generally, having one-sided traits is what can make Pokemon so good/popular.  You're factoring in Infernape's Defensive stats.  That's like counting Blissey's Attack, or even its Speed.  Infernape isn't meant to take blows, nor is almost any Sweeper, for that matter.  It's a universal fact.  That's why switch-outs exist.  And hence why residual damage and switch-in hazards are so popular.  And hence why Rapid Spinners are so popular.  It goes on and on.  Defense on him isn't meant to be counted. 

@flipz:  ooh u haz pt  

Do you have Wi-Fi?  If so, you can participate in our upcoming Wi-Fi Tournament, which I hope to host with fabulous, wonderous prizes of wonder.

.
i kno, but it isn't the best sweeper tbh. for sweeping i use weaviles. they are faster and more powerful (in attack not special attack).

@renegade phantom: that isn't to great... wt if u r against a golem or steelix? i kno u can switch out but i try to keep pokémon more dynamic.

[Magical Girl Mimi]

Weavile's a different type though, and you can have multiple sweepers on a team. >_> Weavile isn't even really the best, as a few things outspeed it IIRC. Plus there's the fact that Infernape learns moves like Flare Blitz and Close Combat, that, when up against a Weavile, if Choice'd would probably outspeed the Weavile, and probably take him out in one hit if it was a Flare Blitz.

[The Host]

wut everyone else said... and even though Infernape's stats in atk, spatk and speed aren't insanely high, he can choose either atk or spatk, or a mix, making him unpredictable. There;s also flare blitz and close combat which cover a lot, and with mach punch as a priority move he doesn't need to be faster than the opponent. Plus his fighting type allows him to take neutral damage from rock types moves, which is quite useful considering the amount of Stealth Rock users...

and weavile is nice, but as Blade said, typing is different, so the point is moot.

as for if I end up fighting a Golem or Steelix... well, I just have to hope I don't. I won't choose to fight steel, rock or ground types with this current Porygon-Z set in the Battle Hall. When I go in again I'm gonna go:
10 Dragon
10 Grass
Mix (Bug and Poison)
Mix (Fire and Normal)
Mix (Flying and Water)

This way I'll avoid getting high level pokemon as I go in, and I'll hopefully not encounter a Heatran or a strong pokemon... (I hate you Heatran and you Magma Storm... and I hate Shuckle with its defences and powered up critical hitting Rollout... )

[Magical Girl Mimi]

oh, I see what you did thar.

You're going to fight only certain Pokemon with this setup, and then switch for the final ones, aren't you, hoping that you don't get a Pokemon that could decimate you as the final Argenta fight, correct?

[B~T]

aaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnd... I lost to Argenta... to about the most annoying pokemon ever: Shuckle. I was so mad. I would have won, if it weren't for a critical hit from Rollout... I was waiting for the Sand Storm to die down to reduce its SpDef and then destroy it and Shuckle got a critical hit...

and then I went back to try again, and on my 19th battle I met a Heatran that knew Magma Storm, which actually hit...
What's a good moveset for Porygon-Z that I could use in the Battle Hall. atm I'm running
Porygon-Z @ Life Orb
Timid
4HP
252SpAtk
252Speed
~Nasty plot
~Recover
~Discharge
~Tri Attack

Tri Attack is my main attack, and usually deals with everything in one move. Recovery's there to keep me alive in a long battle(like against Argenta), and Nasty Plot is there to boost SpAtk if needed. Discharge is an attack that it learns naturally to cover ghosts, steel and rock types that are unnafected/resist T-Atk.

i kno, but it isn't the best sweeper tbh. for sweeping i use weaviles. they are faster and more powerful (in attack not special attack).

@renegade phantom: that isn't to great... wt if u r against a golem or steelix? i kno u can switch out but i try to keep pokémon more dynamic.

@Period - But Porygon-Z can just Nasty Plot up to boost its attack power, and considering Golem and Steelix's Special Defense, they are going to receive a rather huge blow despite their typing.

About Weavile, I can use a Bronzong with Gyro Ball and do massive damage to Weavile even though it is really slow. You do know that Gyro Ball is based on the difference on the opponents speed and your speed, right?

@ZLS - Replace Discharge with Thunderbolt. Recover can be replaced with Ice Beam or Dark Pulse, which can hit Ghosts. Otherwise your Porygon-Z is looking good. I do not have a strategy for Argenta as I do not have Platinum and her Pokemon is random, but use a Pokemon that can hit hard as well as have a variety of moves, such as Electivire(beware Swampert) and Infernape(beware Tentacruel).

[Magical Girl Mimi]

I think he means because of the fact that there's no attack moves other than Tri Beam and Discharge, which Discharge can't hit Ground Types.

[The Host]

@B~T: Yeah, that sounds good. I'll probably go with Ice Beam, since I can import them from my Emerald game, even though Dark Pulse is probably better... Thunderbolt over Discharge is much better, especially since Battle Hall is 1vs1, so it Thunderbolt will hit everything anyways...

oh, I see what you did thar.

You're going to fight only certain Pokemon with this setup, and then switch for the final ones, aren't you, hoping that you don't get a Pokemon that could decimate you as the final Argenta fight, correct?

Probably... although I may switch before starting up again... I'm currently battling with a level 38 Breloom... the pokemon are all ~lv20...

I think he means because of the fact that there's no attack moves other than Tri Beam and Discharge, which Discharge can't hit Ground Types.

Probably... but with this set I'm only battling specefic pokemon and one random... on a team I'll have switches that I can use to lure certain pokemon and revenge kill...

[.]

@blade: weavile is a faster than infernape tho. but i do agree infernape is the best fire sweeper.

[Magical Girl Mimi]

Even with Choice Band/whatever? And while if you agree about that, why do you say Arcanine's better?

[The Host]

cool, thanks. and is this a good moveset for Breloom:

Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Adamant Nature w/ Poison Heal
4 HP
252 Atk
252 Speed

~Mach Punch
~Spore
~Facade
~Stone Edge/Seed Bomb

Not sure about the EVs. 252 Atk maximizes an already good atk stat, while 252 in Speed makes him fast(ish). Mach Punch is for covering up bad speed, spore is for good sleep inducing, Facade's power is doubled because of Poison. Stone Edge is for Flying types that wall me, whereas Seed Bomb is STAB and get waters and ground, as well as rock(but that's covered by Mach Punch).

[.]

@blade: as i said arcanine is better all-around. it won't force switches, which are made bad by stealth rock. and arcanine can defend from sweepers and get past walls.

@ZLS: i would have thunderbolt, for double or multi battles.

also, how do you challenge frontier brains? idk how...

[Dudebot5000]

Here I have a situation. I was breeding Turtwigs for my Competitive team, when I happened to get two Impish ones on the third round; the kind I was looking for. Since EV training them wouldn't help much in the long run, I looked at the IVs.

Turtwig 1:
HP-14
Atk-28
Def-29
SAtk-9
SDef-1
Spd-8

Turtwig 2:
HP-26
Atk-13
Def-6
SAtk-9
SDef-21
Spd-3

Which to choose... =/
(IV stats were calculated at Lv 100, no EVs.)

[Flipz]

@ everyone: wow, those stats are confusing...could someone give me a tutorial?  I've gotten by so far just by setting up my team based on elemental type...but after Jupiter nearly killed me...

Also, does anyone know a good spot to level-grind about 30 pokemon from ~lvl 5 to ~lvl 20?  (Keep in mind I only have the second Gym badge, and I just got my first Bike.)  In particular I need to get Magikarp to evolve (I just got him to lvl 16 by giving him an EXP share...).

BTW, anyone already know this trick: to give a pokemon experience without ever risking it in battle, set it as your starter.  As soon as the fight starts, switch it out, and hey presto it'll gain experience at fight's end.  Kind of like an EXP share, but your main pokemon get's attacked as soon as you send it out.

sorry, no, I don't have wifi.  Hopefully soon, but...

[The Host]

@ blade: as i said arcanine is better all-around. it won't force switches, which are made bad by stealth rock. and arcanine can defend from sweepers and get past walls.

@ZLS: i would have thunderbolt, for double or multi battles.

also, how do you challenge frontier brains? idk how...

eh. I'll probably go with Thunderbolt, but I can always switch it back if I need to..

as for battling the FBs... each one requires a different method. i think these are correct:
Battle Castle: complete 20 single battles and fight the brain on the 21st.
Battle Hall: Complete 49 battles and fight the brain on the 50th.
Battle Tower: Complete 20 single battles and fight the brain on the 21st.
Battle Factory: Complete 20 single battles and fight the brain on the 21st.

idk about the last one... don't even know the name...

@DB: I have no idea which one. I would probably go with the first one, only because Torterra is physically based. The HP is a letdown though...

[Magical Girl Mimi]

@  blade: as i said arcanine is better all-around. it won't force switches, which are made bad by stealth rock. and arcanine can defend from sweepers and get past walls.

@ZLS: i would have thunderbolt, for double or multi battles.

also, how do you challenge frontier brains? idk how...

All around isn't what people use competitively, and if you're using Stealth Rock, you'll want to force switches, though Stealth Rock won't help if your opponent has a Rapid Spinner. And Defend from Sweepers? Water+type of the weaker stat, physical or Special, on a dedicated sweeper+Life Orb+Atk boosting nature+Other factors=Arcanine going down, no matter how balanced it is in it's stats.

And you challenge them by participating in a certain Frontier Building, building up a streak until the brain appears.

[B~T]

@ blade: as i said arcanine is better all-around. it won't force switches, which are made bad by stealth rock. and arcanine can defend from sweepers and get past walls.

@ZLS: i would have thunderbolt, for double or multi battles.

also, how do you challenge frontier brains? idk how...

Arcanine is powerful for the UU tier, but not enough power for OU. What if Arcanine were to receive the Stealth Rock damage? Bye-bye to 1/4 of your HP, which really reduces its longevity. His moveset is also very shallow despite having Flare Blitz and ExtremeSpeed.

Since the majority of Arcanine are built to be sweepers, there are no EVs put on defenses. So what if I bring out my Milotic? Even a Surf can damage Arcanine pretty badly, and since Milotic packs 252 Defense EVs, it can hold its own from a Thunder Fang pretty well.

[Magical Girl Mimi]

Plus there's Gallade, which while he could fall eventually, if he packs Stone Edge, and either outspeeds Arcanine or doesn't faint from the first hit and has a good item to hold that boosts Stone Edge's power, then Arcanine goes bye bye. Especially if it Criticals.

[.]

gallade would need a focousband to not fall on the first hit (i have one). and milotic or other defensive water pokémon is like tentacruel  for infernape. tough to beat.

[Magical Girl Mimi]

... Explain please how Gallade wouldn't survive the first hit if set up right, without Focus Band?

[B~T]

... Explain please how Gallade wouldn't survive the first hit if set up right, without Focus Band?

Actually, Gallade will fall on the first hit with Flare Blitz, since Arcanine is faster. Find a damage calculator and see what I mean.

If the EVs and nature were set to be a Sweeper, the least amount of damage will be ~147%, an OHKO, even with 31 IVs in HP and Defense.

Since period can't understand why Arcanine isn't as great as Infernape, I guess I will do a guide for Arcanine. I'm not saying it is a bad Pokemon, but...

So today's Pokemon is...  <--That is pretty much pointless since I already have mentioned it...

ARCANINE!!!

Type: FIRE
Ability: Intimidate  - Lowers the opponent's attack by one stage when it comes into battle. Will not take effect if the opposing Pokemon switches out to another Pokemon and the Pokemon with Intimidate stays.
          Flash Fire - Fire-type moves as well as Will O Wisp are boosted to 1.5x power when hit with a Fire-Type move.
Stats:

HP	90
Atck	110
Def	80
Sp. Atck	100
Sp. Def	80
Speed	95

Author's Opinion: In the 3rd Generation, it suffered the lack of a STAB Fire Move as well as a variety of moves. Now, it has Flare Blitz, but still has problems having a variety of moves. It is too powerful for the UU tier, but not enough to make it into OU. It is a decent Pokemon, but go with Infernape or Blaziken if you want more of a kick to attack and/or speed as well as a Stealth Rock resistance, which is a problem for Arcanine.
Recommended Movesets:
Nature: Jolly/Adamant
Item: Choice Band/Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atck/252 Speed
~ Flare Blitz
~ Thunder Fang
~ Extreme Speed
~ Iron Head/Iron Tail/Overheat/Fire Blast

Go for Intimidate, since there aren't that many Fire moves in OU as well as UU. Flare Blitz is your main STAB choice here, and Thunder Fang causes ruckus to Water types. Extreme Speed is an interesting move, which can hit Pokemon that are faster than it and are more fragile. You have several options for the last moveslot. Iron Tail for more power, but less accuracy as well as a chance for lower defense, and Iron Head for Flinch Rate, 100% accuracy, and less power.

Nature: Timid/Modest
Item: Choice Specs/Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 4 HP/252 Sp. Attack/252 Speed
~ Flamethrower
~ Dragon Pulse
~ Hidden Power (GRASS)/Hidden Power (GROUND)
~ Overheat/Fire Blast/Toxic

The special variant of Arcanine is rather limited too. Flamethrower is the main option, while Dragon Pulse hits Dragon types that resist Fire. Hidden Power covers up its lack of moves for Special Attack, but different types have different advantages. Hidden Power Grass gives you coverage against Water, Ground, and Rock-type Pokemon, but Hidden Power Ground hits Heatran as well as coverage against Rock types. Overheat for a burst of power, Fire Blast for its ability to not lose Sp. Attack, and Toxic can mess up Bulky Waters, so it will make a decent option in your roster.
Countering Arcanine:

Bulky Waters easily counter all variants of Arcanine if it doesn't have Toxic. Thunder Fang might sting though.

If it doesn't have a Steel typed move or Hidden Power Grass or Ground, then Rock types with high defenses like Tyranitar can wall it and make quick work of it.  

Heatran can wall Arcanine on and on and on if it doesn't have Hidden Power Ground.

Stealth Rock can reduce its ability to last long in battle so bring in a Rapid Spinner to safely bring out Arcanine.